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>> welcome to cnn newsroom. i'm suzanne malveaux. right now the whole country talking about one thing. last night's historic debate. we're going to dig through the facts, the figures cutting through the spin, and then at
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1:00 p.m. eastern we're going beyond the soundbytes. we're going to replay the whole debate in full so you can get a sense for yourself. two different visions of the country's future that these candidates represent. lots to talk about. let's get right to. all right. mitt romney coming out swinging. many viewers from the left and from the right say president obama took a shellacking. dana bash has the highlights. >> reporter: right out of the gate it was clear, mitt romney came to play. >> the president has a view very similar to the view he had when he ran four years ago. that a bigger government, spending more, taxing more, regulating more, if you will, trickle down government would work. >> president obama sounded a familiar alarm. warning of romney's been there done that economics. >> the approach that governor romney is talking about is the same sales pitch that was made in 2001 and 2003. we ended up with the slowest job growth in 50 years.
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>> whether it was health care, jobs, or medicare, it was romney who stood out for his aggressive ste. >> i just don't know how the president could have come into office facing 23 million people out of work, rising unemployment, an economic crisis at the kitchen table, and spend his energy and passion for two years fighting for obama care. >> the president made his points in a slower, more laid back, often looking down, sometimes appearing disengaged. it's not that he didn't try to rip apart romney's economic plan. >> that kind of top-down economics where folks at the top are doing well, so the average person making $3 million is getting a $250,000 tax break while middle class families are burdened further. >> romney was determined to go toe to toe. >> well, but virtually everything he said about my tax plan is inaccurate. if the tax plan he described were a tax plan i was asked to support, i would say absolutely not. >> the president did get digs in. >> for 18 months he has been
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running on this tax plan, and now five weeks before the election he is saying that his big bold idea is never mind. >> but he also showed flashes of the kind of testiness sources in both camps feared from their candidates, except obama's was directed at the moderator, not romney. >> the last point i would make before -- >> ten minutes is up, sir. >> i think -- i had five seconds before you interrupted me. was -- >> romney did have his own awkward moderator moment. >> i'm sorry, jim. i'm going to stop this subsidy to pbs. i'm going to stop other things, and i like pbs. i love big bird. i actually like you too. >> one of the most surprising parts of the president's performance was what he did not say. no mention of romney's infamous 47% remark, no talk about bain capital, nothing about romney's own taxes. he did play the romney is a hypocrite card when it comes to health care. >> the irony is that we've seen this model work really well in
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massachusetts because governor romney did a good thing working with democrats in the state to set up what is essentially the identical model and as a consequence people are covered there. it hasn't destroyed jobs. >> romney, who ran from his massachusetts health care plan during the gop primaries, now used it to tag to the middle for the general election. >> i like the way we did it in massachusetts. i like the fact that in 3450i my state we had republicans and democrats come together and work together. what you did instead was to push through a plan without a single republican vote. >> and romney's countless hours of rehearsals clearly produced lines like this. >> mr. president, you're entitled as a president your own airplane and your own house, but not your own facts. >> that was one of the few memorable one-liners of the night. what made the debate stand out was how zinger-free and substantive it was. especially on the candidates contrasting economic plans where
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are the problem for the president is he left many of romney's claims and charges unanswered, and left many democratic strategists and supporters very frustrated. dana bash, cnn, new york. the first debate behind him, president obama is back out rallying supporters. now, the president is set to begin speaking at awe campaign event in november. we expect that he is going to come out any moment now. we'll take a look at live pictures there. you see the poster. as soon as it starts, we're going to bring that to you, and right now whether or not you are democrat or republican, it seems like most folks who watch this debate actually agree that hands down the winner, mitt romney, as cnn opinion research poll released after the debate shows 67% of those who watch have said romney won while 25% gave it to the president. joining us from washington to talk about it, democratic strategist donna and anna, both cnn contributeors. we were up late last night watching this thing. a lot of people are talking about it today. anna, first of all, when you and i talked yesterday, your advice
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to romney was try not to be funny, challenge the president, and bring it even saying novina. i assume that you are feeling pretty good that your prayers are answered? >> hallelujah. amen. you know, we saw america last night. we saw a guy who was on the ropes come back, get out of icu and stand on his feet again. look, last night was a very important moment for mitt romney. i think the expectations game really helped him. even though both campaigns tried to lower expectations, the truth is the american voters were waiting to see a very good barack obama, and president obama just didn't show up with his a game. mitt romney did. i saw a lot of the same mitt romney that i saw with win the two debates in florida. he was phobinged. he was assertive. he was aggressive. he was knowledgeable. i just don't know what happened to barack obama. where was he? >> let's ask donna because, donna, honestly, you're not about spin.
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you're about keeping it real here, and i was texting late into the night with a lot of obama campaign sur gats and supporters who are very disappointed with the president, and that's what they said to me. they said he didn't show up. he didn't show up. he didn't fight for himself. he didn't correct romney's misstatements, and in one of the tweets i was circulating said, mr. president, raise your head. even the body language here disturbed a lot of people. what happened? what happened? where was the president? president obama last night. >> well, first of all, i think he gave mitt romney that iv. he probably saw all of the kleenex and the tears that the republicans were wasting over mitt romney and decided, you know what, i'm going to give this guy a helping hand. no. the honest truth is that the president had a bad night, but despite all of that, i don't think that mitt romney, you know, knocked it out of the ballpark. mitt romney is much better at these debates. he is well rehearsed. no matter whether it's with eight colleagues, when we saw in
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the republican debate or with one person, but, you know what, i think mitt romney's answers will get him -- land him in hot water. his response on taxes. even, you know, not accurately telling the american people how many people are unemployed. his own health care plan. >> how do you think the president actually will address a lot of those things? why didn't the president? there were a number of misstatements, and i have been talking to democrats who say, you know what, we're really hoping those fact checkers will set the record straight. why didn't the president do that, do you suppose, last night? >> suzanne, i think only the president can answer that question. month one has given me any information in terms of why the president left so much on the floor last night. maybe the president decided this was a moment to talk to the american people and not, you know, pick up the same mud that mitt romney has been throwing and muddy up the game. i don't know what the ultimate strategy was. i know democrats this morning are waking up, you know. they went to bed upset, and a
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lot of democrats woke up angry this morning. angry at the president that he didn't finish the job. there was a lot of blood in the water. this could have been a moment when president obama would have finished a job because conservatives were upset with mitt romney. the republicans were upset with mitt romney. we know independents didn't care for mitt romney, and last night president obama gave him, you know, some much needed life support. >> so -- >> you know what, it's not over. >> of course. no, no, it's not over at all. we have two more debates, and obviously a vice presidential debate as well. anna, romney actually talked a lot about jobs. he kept going back to had it. he was very, very focused here, and he accused the president of killing jobs. it didn't even matter what the subject was. he kept bringing it back to jobs. was there anything that you felt that the president needed to focus on, that he could have made more inroads? >> he needed to focus, period, suzanne. he just was unfocused. he wasn't quite there. you know, he -- why didn't he bring up all the -- why didn't he correct the things he felt he needed correcting?
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because he was slow-footed. why didn't he focus on one or two or three of his big achievements? because he was slow-footed. he just wasn't at the top of his game. i think mitt romney took advantage of that and, you know, we saw him even dominate the debate format and really just be head and shoulders above president obama yesterday when everybody expected the opposite. the good news i have for my democratic friends is that now, look, i think now the debate expectation games has turned upside down, and people are going to be expecting mitt romney to do very well, and replicate his performance from last night, and so barack obama, you know, if he just basically shows up and looks at mitt romney, that might in itself win the debate. >> well, we're going to have to leave it there. i don't think romney scored any points -- >> can i have a plug for big bird, though? >> i was going to bring up big bird. >> there's some tax loophole, but don't give up big bird.
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big bird has entertained many of children and adults. i am a big bird fan. >> i am a big bird -- i am a big bird loving republican as well, donna. >> all right. >> big bird -- yellow for big bird. >> big bird is the winner today. obviously, we're going to be watching the debate, and if you added your voice to the on-line conversation during this debate, certainly tons, millions of people did last night, and it was unbelievable. i was on twitter. millions of people on twitter. they actually released a traffic report declaring that last night's debate was the most tweeted about event in american political history. we're talking about ten million messages that crisscross the twitter-verse during those 90 minutes. most users, well, they thought it was kind of boring. here's a food that stood out to us. this one, your italian wrote, the debates in my house are much louder. this one from blogger lena sandstrom. romney has a bigger u.s. flag pin than the obama. is the debate over? 14 minutes until we can get all
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go back to preferring the candidate we liked when the debate started. remember, if you missed it last night and, of course, you want to see the whole thing for yourself, we're going to be airing the entire debate 1:00 p.m. eastern right here on cnn. and the day after what many in his own party are calling a very disappointing debate performance. the president is now back out on the trail trying to get his mojo back. we're going to go live to denver. [ male announcer ] truth is, nyquil doesn't unstuff your nose. what? [ male announcer ] alka-seltzer plus liquid gels speeds relief to your worst cold symptoms plus has a decongestant for your stuffy nose. thanks. that's the cold truth! can youlyric can.aid do this? thanks. lyric can. lyric can. lyric by phonak is the world's only 24/7, 100% invisible hearing device. it's tiny. but lyric's not just about what you can't see. it's about what it can do. lyric can be worn 24/7 for up to four months, without battery changes. and lyric can be worn showering, sleeping and exercising.
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to be re-elected, you'll continue to see a middle class squeeze, with incomes going down and prices going up. i'll get incomes up again. you' see chronic unemployment. we've had 43 straight months with unemployment above 8%. if i'm president, i will create -- help create 12 million new jobs in this country. >> those are the closing statements from last night's debate. now, both candidates, they're back on the campaign trail today re-energized mitt romney. he is at a rally with his running mate paul ryan. president obama's campaign event is getting underway right now. you're seeing live pictures there in denver. expect the president to start speaking in a minute as soon as he starts, of course, we'll bring that to you. jessica yellin is at that event as well, and jessica, we've heard a lot of spin. we've heard it late last night. we've heard it early into the morning. is there a point where the surrogates, the supporters who you are talking to acknowledged that the president needs to do better, he needs to move on, he needs to make up for what happened last night? >> no one is officially with the
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campaign will say that, suzanne. i am talking to democrats who definitely are agreeing with that, and i'm sure you are. they're arg urg that mitt romney was not really truthful, and i think we'll see in the coming days and weeks that the campaign will take on some of the claims that went unanswered last night by the president, but it doesn't resolve the question why didn't the president answer that himself in the debate. i think that goes to maybe questions about his debate preparation, their strategy, and there might be changes ahead. i wouldn't be surprised if there would be, suzanne, and we might see a different man come on the stage when the president faces mitt romney again two weeks from now. >> are you talking about his debate partner perhaps, or are you talking about other people who are behind the scenes? >> no, no. i don't mean changes in
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individuals. i mean the general focus from the team was that the -- the general focus and idea was that the president shudz communicate with voters at home. they say the president should not really be on the attack because swing voters don't like to see that kind of combat from politicians. they're sick of it. in a debate format, one has to engage to seem present and to seem proud of one's accomplishments and to defend one's record, and if the -- since the president didn't do those things aggressively last night, he has received a lot of criticism from it. not just from the pundit class, but it seems from the polling so far from some viewers as well. so i wouldn't be surprised if he modulates his performance. he is a very competent tiff guy. i bet he'll come in with a different game next time. >> jessica yellin, thanks so much. we're about to replay last night's debate in its entirety. that's at 1:00 p.m. eastern. you're going to see mitt romney challenge the president's
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policies, but he also took a swing at big bird. i'm not kidding you. good old big bird from "sesame street." you'll hear that. big better's boss, of course, has something to say about it. ♪ make me happy to be a bird tr, this is new bayer migraine. [ male announcer ] it's the power of aspirin plus more in a triple action formula to relieve your tough migraines. new bayer migraine formula. stop! stop! stop! come back here! humans -- we are beautifully imperfect creatures living in an imperfect world. that's why liberty mutual insurance has your back with great ideas like our optional better car replacement. if your car is totaled, we give you the money to buy one a model year newer.
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mitt romney may have faired well in most opinion polls, but we are pretty sure, guaranteeing, he is not popular among enormous yellow birds who know the alphabet. romney put america's most beloved bird on the chopping block last night saying public broadcasting would get no more government subsidies in his administration. here's what he said. >> i'm going to stop the subsidy to pbs and other things. i like pbs. i love big bird. i twool like you too. i'm not going to keep on spending money on things to borrow money from china to pay for it. >> so twitter-verse blew up. facebook as well. mentions of the word big bird on facebook soared by 800,000%. we're not exaggerating. read these here.
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some of our favorite big bird tweets. mystery -- i think big bird would be okay. it's snuffy i'm worried about. he wouldn't last two seconds on the street. this new account was created during the debate. fired big bird wrote, "if you don't vote obama, mitt romney is going to be eating me by the end of november. show your support." also, this one from fired big bird. somewhere paul ryan is kicking over trash cans in hopes of smoking out oscar the grouch." ah. people are clearly having a good time on twitter with big bird comments. it did strike a nerve. the bird was mentioned more times than taxes, medicare, and education, and also big bird, the woman who runs "sesame street" says don't worry about it. big bird and his tv friends aren't going anywhere no matter who is in the white house. >> the sesame workshop receives very, very little funding from pbs. we are able to raise our fding through philanthropic, through our licensed product, which goes back into the educational
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programming, through corporate underwriting and sponsorship, so quite frankly, you know, you can debate whether or not there should be funding to public broadcasting, but when they always start to call out big bird and we're going to kill big bird, that's misleading because sesame street will be here. >> big bird lives no matter what? >> big bird lives on. >> we're waiting to hear from the president live from the campaign trail out at denver. we'll bring that to you live. also, if you missed the debate last night, want to see the whole thing, we'll be airing the entire first presidential debate at 1:00 eastern right here on cnn. but because of business people like you, things are beginning to get rolling. and regions is here to help. making it easier with the expertise and service to keep those wheels turning. from business loans to cash management, we want to be your partner moving forward. so switch to regions. and let's get going. together.
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wanting their voices heard, their concerns on the agenda. >> tell me why you're here tonight. >> we're here asking both of the candidates to look at immigration in a more humane sense because none of them are doing so. >> latino students hope to hear something that spoke to them. they never got it. >> they have too many issues that i'm passionate about. i'm still waiting to hear. >> what are you passionate about? >> i would definitely say immigration, education. >> with the president who won 61% of colorado's latino votes in 2008, that same energy for many latinos just isn't there. >> four years ago barack obama, i had his back. he very much spoke to me, but now i'm hearing the same rhetoric that i heard four years ago. >> still, there are 400,000 latino votes in play across the state. both sides courting them heavily. >> mr. president, how are you? >> that's president obama speaking to kbno's hernando last
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may. he hosts a radio show reaching latinos across the state. >> and you find yourself in the middle of presidential politics. tell me about that. >> you know, i think it underlines the importance of the hispanic vote. i think that's what it is. for the president of the united states, the commander in chief to pick up the phone and call me, call my show, talk to my listeners, it shows that. >> as for governor romney, everyone but the candidates themselves so far has been on the show. with a margin of victory here expected to be tiny, both sides want to win over businessmen like sergio eadvantage leasta. >> we met in may. you were undecided then. today? >> still are. i haven't heard from any of the candidates that would make me choose one of them right now. >> he doesn't believe either candidate can do much to improve the economy, but he is waiting for one of them to say something concrete about how they'll fix immigration. >> well, i have friends.
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i have family members that are not legally here in the country, and there is no solution in sight. >> two more presidential debates to go. latinos here will be watching closely. miguel marquez, cnn, denver. the number of potential latino voters growing by 50,000 every month. it is a voting block that could have i major impact on the presidential election. join cnn for a closer look at the fight to win the latino vote. latino in america courting their vote, 8:00 eastern sunday on cnn. >> it was a big night for mitt romney, but was it enough to move the polls. take a look at what voters thought about this debate by the numbers. president obama about to make his pitch to voters in denver. we'll bring that to you live. ad people are driving this change. that's the per of human resources. the society... for human resource management and its members know... how to harness that power, because we help develop it.
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>> president obama live. let's listen in. >> because he seems to be doing just fine with his current
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account. so, you see, the man on stage last night, he does not want to be held accountable for the real mitt romney's decisions and what he has been saying for the last year. that's because he knows full well that we don't want what he has been selling for the last we're. [ applause ] governor romney may dance around his positions, but if you want to be president, he owe the american people the truth. meerz the truth. governor romney can't play for his $5 trillion tax plan without blowing up the deficit or stick it to the middle class. that's the math. we can't afford to go down that road again. we can't afford to gut our
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investments in education or clean energy or research and technology. we can't afford to roll back regulations on wall street. or on big oil companies or insurance companies. we cannot afford to double down with the same top-down economic policy that is got us into this mess. that is not a plan to create jobs. that is not a plan to grow the economy. that is not changed. that is a relapse. we don't want to go back there. it didn't work, and we are not going back. we are going forward. i've got a different view about how we create jobs and prosperity. this government doesn't succeed when we only see the rich getting richer. we succeed when the middle class gets bigger. we grow our economy not from the top down, but from the middle out. we don't believe that anybody is
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entitled to success in this country, but we do believe in something called opportunity. we believe in a country where hard work pays off and where responsibilities were awarded and everybody is getting a fair shot, and everybody is doing their fair share, and everybody plays by the same rules. that's the country we believe in. that's what i'm fighting for. that's why i'm running for the second term of the united states, and that's why i want your vote. [ chanting "four more years" ] what i talked about last night was a new economic patriottism. a patriotism that's rooted in the belief that our economy
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requires a strong, thriving middle class. we export more jobs and we outsource -- export more products, and we outsource fewer jobs. you know, over the last three years, we came together to reinvent a dying auto industry that's back on top of the world. we created more than half a million new manufacturing jobs. we can keep giving tax breaks to corporations that ship jobs overseas, or we can start rewarding companies that are opening new plants and training new workers and creating new jobs right here in the united states of america. that's what we're looking for. we can help big factories and -- create a million new manufacturing jobs over the next four years. you can make that happen. i want to control more of our own energy. after 30 years of inaction, we raise fuel standards so by the middle of the next stage your cars and trucks will be going twice as far on a gallon of gas.
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we've doubled the amount of renewable energy we generate from sources like wind and solar. thousands of americans have jobs today building wind turbines and long-lasting batteries. it is united states of america today is less dependent on foreign oil than any time in nearly two decades. now you've got a choice between a plan that reverses this progress or one that buildings on it. last night my opponent says he refuses to close the loophole that gives big oil companies $4 billion in taxpayer subsidies every year. we've got a better plan where we keep investing in wind and solar and the good jobs that come with that. we're farmers and scientists harness new biofuels to power our cars and our trucks. where construction workers are retro fitting homes and factories so they waste less energy. and we can develop 100-year
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supply of natural gas. it creates hundreds of thousands of jobs and, by the way, we can cut our oil imports in half by 2020. that will be good for our question economy. that will be good for our environment. that will be good for colorado. that will be good for america. that's what we're fighting for. that's why i am running for a second term as president of the united states. >> i want to give more americans the chance to learn the skills they need to compete. i talked last night about how education was the gateway of opportunity for me and michelle. for so many of you. it's a gateway for a middle class life. we took on a system that was wasting billions of taxpayer dollars on banking and lenders.
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and so now you've got a choice. we can cut education to pay for more tax breaks for the wealthy, or we can decide that in the united states of america, no child should have her dream deferred because of an overcrowded classroom. no family should have to set aside a college acceptance letter because they don't have the money. no company should have to look for workers in china because they couldn't find any with the right skills here in the united states. so we're going to recruit 100,000 new math and science teachers, ande're going to improve early childhood education and we're going to create two million more slots in community colleges so that workers can get trained for the jobs that are out there right now. we are going to continue to do everything we need to do to cuts the growth of tuition costs because every young person in america should have the opportunity to go to college without being loaded up with hundreds -- with tens of thousands of dollars worth much debt. >> president obama is speaking
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probably for the first time since what many saw as a disastrous debate last night. we're going to be following the president today and also tomorrow. it's going to be another huge day for politics. it's when the latest jobs numbers come out. our own ali velshi is going to give you a look at how crucial the figures could be in the presidential race. i don't spend money on gasoline. i am probably going to the gas station about once a month. last time i was at a gas station was about...i would say... two months ago. i very rarely put gas in my chevy volt. i go to the gas station such a small amount that i forget how to put gas in my car. [ male announcer ] and it's not just these owners giving the volt high praise. volt received the j.d. power and associates appeal award two years in a row. ♪
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zurnd the president's policies middle income americans have been buried. they're just being crushed. middle number americans have seen their income come down by $4,300. this is a tax in and of itself. i'll call it the economy tax. it's been crushing. >> let's talk about taxes, because i think it's instructive. now, four years ago when i stood on this stage, i said that i would cut taxes for middle class families, and that's exactly what i did. we cut taxes for middle class families by about $3,600, and the reason is because i believe that we do best when the middle class is doing well. >> that was just a couple of highlights from last night's presidential debate. we're going to go more than just play soundbytes. we're going to replay the entire debate next hour of cnn newsroom, so you can judge for yourself just how the candidates
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performed. which candidate would do a better job of growing a sluggish economy? voters, they're looking for answers. last night's debate, did they actually even get them? we're going to bring in our cnn chief business correspondent alshi velshi. an incredible debate. ali, i want to start off with you first. >> yeah. >> one of the things that mitt romney was very consistent on, the messaging, if you will, it didn't matter what he was asked. he always brought it back to jobs. he accused the president of killing jobs. he said he would create jobs. what was his main argument? how would he do that? >> well, it's -- i'm glad we're replaying it, because it's worth watching again so to see what you missed. his main argument is that if you lower taxes, as he has said he would, both on corporatings and on individuals across the board, what you'll do is you'll end up with people paying lower taxes and they'll -- but they'll have more income. they'll be more people with jobs. even though the percentage of their income that they pay is lower, they'll generate more money for the government and they'll generate more business. that's the idea that there will be economic growth. the problem with his argument is
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that we have had relatively low taxes for a long time. we have not seen corporate tax cuts in a very long time, so we're not quite sure how businesses, for instance, would react to lower taxes. we're not even sure how customers -- how consumers would react to lower taxes. his argument is that your way isn't working, barack obama. let's try our way where we give people more money, put more money into their pockets and see if it stimulates the economy. >> i want to bring you in here on this point. one of the things that he talked about that mitt romney kept hammering is that he was talking about the middle class in particular, and he was saying, you know what, gas prices are up, food prices are up. a lot of people are unemployed. how did the president frame his argument here in dealing with the state of the middle class and what he would do to lift the middle class? >> the president's essential argument was that the romney plan, as ali just laid out, essentially is a throwback to the bush era and before that got us into this mess. to use a phrase he might say. to make a case that instead we
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should be making longer-term investments and that simply cutting taxes isn't going to generate the kind of economic growth for the middle class that we need, and indeed, we've seen this middle class squeeze for a long time, for more than a decade now, especially in the wake of the bush tax cuts. that really was the argument the president was trying to make drawing a contrast between the two plans, but he did it in a professionalal, listless way, and that is what led to a lot of the wisdom around the debate today. >> one of the figures that came up in this debate, and that was donald trump. the president brought it up, and he is not one of his favorite people. there was a case of what is a small business. how do you define that? >> what was the bottom line to the point they were trying to make? >> because of the tax, the way taxes are structured in this country and other countries, if you are not really a corporation and you don't need to be, you don't incorporate. in this country you can incorporate, but run a lot of your profits, your profits through your personal taxes. the larger point, want even having to do with donald trump, is that there are a lot of people who are businesses in
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this country who are not necessarily going to benefit from a tax cut. that's the point the president was trying to make. mitt romney took that and said there are lots of people who are small businesses who do employ people, and, in fact, they employ a lot of the new -- they are responsible for a lot of the new growth in employment in this country. the issue is do you cut taxes for small businesses, and if you do, will they reinvest that in employing people? a lot of our history indicates to us that that's not necessarily the case. they will take it as profits. s they will buy back shares and do all sorts of things that will not necessarily result in employment. again, this is an unknowable. it's a hard thing to prove true or not true. what it did is illustrate the difference between president obama's philosophy on business and mitt romney's? >> all right. we're going to have both of you guys after this quick break. don't forget, you wanted to watch the whole thing. we're going to be airing the into debate. that at the top of the hour right here on cnn. begins with back pain and a choice. take advil, and maybe have to take up to four in a day. or take aleve, which can relieve pain all day with just two pills.
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good eye. prego?! but i've bought ragu for years. [ thinking ] wonder what other questionable choices i've made? i choose date number 2! whooo! [ sigh of relief ] [ male announcer ] choose taste. choose prego. [ sigh of relief ] these appliances could have been made here in america. but a company called global tech maximized profits by paying its workers next to nothing... under sweatshop conditions in china. when mitt romney led bain, they saw global tech as a good investment... even knowing that the firm promoted its practice of exploiting... low-wage labor to its investors. mitt romney - tough on china?
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since when?
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>> you don't have to worry about that. cnn will replay the debate in its entirety at 1:00 p.m. eastern. we'll look ahead with ali velshi and john avalon. first of all, john, i want to talk with you about tomorrow. tomorrow you have the jobs
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reports. that is coming out. could be a game changer. are people going to be watching for that number and what could it possibly indicate for the president? >> the jobs numbers are the key of this election, schs the economy, jobs. you hear it again and again. swing voters in particular. it's issue number one. this is an important number. we've seen it drop to 8.1%, but this has been a real source of frustration for the president. if the jobs number were to grow up, that would compound a lot of the narratives that mitt romney said yesterday, which is that the obama plan hasn't been working. people aren't working. eebl the date is november 2nd, and that is really going to be key in crystallizing people's psychology as they go into the voting booth. >> yeah. >> john and i are going to have
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a better answer for you in the coming weeks because we're both heading out into the country on october 22nd. we'll get on the bus. the cnn express and drive around. the issue is you feel better or worse about the economy, largely based on your personal situation right now. for some people it is very clear that our economy right now is substantially better than it was four years ago. we have created as many jobs as we have lost. we have exceed thad by 125,000 jobs. if you lost your job in the middle of 2009 and you aren't employed or you lost your job last year, it's horrible. john is right. it is the talisman of the economy. it's the most important leg of the three-legged stool of the economy. the other one being your investments and your property. >> it makes you feel like it's going to be better or worse. that's the issue. if we are creating a lot of jobs, have you some sense of whether you are employed or
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unemployed. things will get better for you. if are you employed, you can command a better salary. if you are unemployed, it could get worse. that's why -- that's why it's important to sentiment. it really makes you believe so the decision to buy that wraushing machine or the car or that house has a lot to do with what that number will be on friday. if you think this economy is plugging along, you'll do that. this is more to do with what you do with your money, and that's why it's important. >> john, do people really pay attention to that number, toe? >> we pay attention to it. if you have aoter out will there, are you really paying attention? will you listen to the facts and figures and just the weeks ahead of the election? >> john, my salary depends on this, so say yes. >> without raining on your parade, i don't think most voters organize their calendar around the first friday of the month.
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we haven't seen anything like that since franklin roosevelt. the key thing is the trend, though. it's the trend. are we moving out of recession? are we moving towards more job growth, and the president can point to that, but that number is a major weight that he has been defiling gravity on today. >> xlek growth is pretty anemic, though. 1.3%. i mean, he -- he is really not that much in a period of growth at this point? >> it's worrisome. >> that's three million a year. we've only done this three times in our history. one was during world war ii. let's entirely discount that. take the last two. one was under reagan when economic growth was 4.8%.
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the economy is barely scraping by, and you think all of a sudden you're going to increase job growth by 50%. both of them aren't really telling you the truth on that, but, you know, it's a nice message to sell sunshine in america for the future. the reality isn't that good. if you get out there, and you say, hey, this is tough times, it's a bill haul, it doesn't sell. >> got to leave it there. we're running out of time. thank you. ali and john. if you front of to watch your money with ali velshi saturday at 1:00 p.m. eastern, sunday at 3:00 p.m. eastern, and if you misdz the debate last night, want to see the whole thing for yourself, we'll be airing the entire debate at the top of the hour right here on cnn. oh...there you go. wooohooo....hahaahahaha! i'm gonna stand up to her! no you're not. i know. you know ronny folks who save hundreds of dollars switching to geico sure are happy. how happy are they jimmy? happier than a witch in a broom factory. get happy. get geico.
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>> we told you how twitter exploded last night during the debate. well, google was buzzing too. top searchers during the debate had to do with some of the wonkier topics that the candidates brought up. what was it? number one simpson-bowles. that is shourt-hand for the congressional committee studying the debt crisis. number two, dodd frank. another insider term that refers
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to the financial regulatory law that president obama signed in 2010. number three is enough who is winning the debate, and number four, big bird. touched off, of course, by mitt romney's pledge to pull federal subsidies for public television. people also wanted to know about the president's health care overhaul known as obama care. as well as the personal stats. and as for romney, his tax cut proposal got lots of hits, as did his bio, and, yet again, big bird. everyone, of course, is talking about the debate. they're also saying that there was a commanding performance by mitt romney. of course, the highlights, the commentary, and the spin, but we'll replay the entire debate from start to finish. we're not talking about talking points. we are talking about the candidates themselves in their own words.
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if you missed it, if you like to watch it again, decide to see for yourself. here's the first presidential debate between president barack obama and former massachusetts governor mitt romney. >> good evening from the magnus arena at the university of denver in denver, colorado. i welcome you to the first of the 2012 presidential debates between president barack obama, the democratic nominee, and former massachusetts governor mitt romney, the republican nominee. this debate and the next three, two presidential, one vice presidential, are sponsored by the commission on presidential debates. tonight's 90 minutes will be about domestic issues and will follow a format designed by the
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commission. there will be six roughly 15-minute segments with two-minute answers for the first question and then open discussion for the remainder of each segment. thousands of people offered suggestions on segment subjects or questions via the internet and other means, but i made the final selections, and for the record, they were not submitted for approval to the commission or the candidates. the segments as i announce in advance wl be three on the economy and one each on health care, the role of government, and governing with an emphasis throughout on differences, specifics, and choices. both candidates will also have two-minute closing statements. the audience here in the hall has promised to remain silent. no cheers, applause, boos, hisses among other noisy distracting things, so we may all concentrate on what the
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candidates have to say. there is a noise exception right now, though, as we welcome president obama and governor romney. [ applause ] >> jim. >> gentlemen, welcome to you both. let's start with the economy, segment one, and let's begin with jobs. what are the major differences betweethe two of you about how you would go about creating new jobs? we have two minutes. each of you have two minutes to
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start. the coin toss has determined that mr. president, you go first. >> thank you very much, jim, for this opportunity. i want to thank governor romney and the university of denver for your hospitality. there are a lot of points i want to make tonight, but the most important one is that 20 years ago i became the luckiest man on earth because michelle obama agreed to marry me. so i just want to wish you, sweetie, a happy anniversary, and let you know that a year from now we will not be celebrating it in front of 40 million people. four years ago we went through the worst financial crisis since the great depression. millions of jobs were lost. the auto industry was on the brink of collapse. the financial system had frozen up. because of the resilience and the determination of the american people, we have begun to fight our way back. over the last 30 months we've seen five million jobs in the private sector created. the auto industry has come
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roaring back, and housing has begun to rise. we all know that we've still got a lot of work to do, and so the question here tonight is not where we've been, but where we're going. governor romney has a perspective that says if we cut taxes skewed towards the wealthy and roll back regulations that we'll be better off. i've got a different view. i think we've got to invest in education and training. i think it's important for us to develop new sources of energy here in america, that we change our tax code to make sure that we're helping small businesses and companies that are investing here in the united states, that we take some of the money that we're saving as we wind down two wars to rebuild america and that we reduce or deficit in a balanced way that allows us to make these critical investments. now, ultimately it's up to the voters, to you, which path we should take. are we going to double down on the top-down economic policy
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that is helped to get us into this mess, or do we embrace a new economic patriotism that says america does best when the middle class does best, and i'm looking forward to having that debate. >> governor romney, two minutes. >> thank you, jim. it's an honor to be here with yo and i appreciate the chance to be with the president. i'm pleased to be at the university of denver. appreciate their welcome. also the presidential commission on these debates. congratulations to you, mr. president, on your anniversary. i'm sure this was the most romantic place you could imagine here with me, so i -- congratulations. this is obviously a very tender topic. i've had the occasion over the last couple of years of meeting people across the country. i was in dayton, ohio, and a woman grabbed my arm, and she said i have been out of work since may. can you help me? yesterday was a rally in denver, and a woman came up to her with a baby in her arms and said, ann, my husband has had four jobs in three years, part-time jobs. he has lost his most recent job.
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we've now just lost our home. can you help us? and the answer is yes, we can help, but it's iffing to take a different path. not the one we've been on. not the one the president describes as a top-down, cut taxes for the rich. that's not what i'm going to do. my plan has five basic parts. one, get us energy-independent. north american energy independent. that creates about four million jobs. number two, open up more trade, particularly in latin america, crack down on china, if and when they cheat. number three, make sure our people have the skills they need to succeed and the best schools in the world. we're far away from that now. number four, get us to a balanced budget. numb five, champion small business. it's small business that creates the jobs in america, and over the last four years small business people have decided that america may not be the place to open a new business because new business start-ups are down to a 30-year low. i know what it takes to get small business going again, to hire people. now, i'm concerned that the path
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that we're on has just been unsuccessful. the president has a view very similar to the view he had when he ran four years ago, that a bigger government, spending more, taxing more, regulating more, if you will, trickle down government, would work. that's not the right answer for america. i'll restore the vitality that gets america working again. thank you. >> mr. president, please respond directly to what the governor just said about trickle down, his trickle down approach, as he said yours is. >> well, let me talk specif specifically about what i think we need to do. first, we have to improve our education system, and we've made enormous progress drawing on ideas both from democrats and republicans that are already starting to show gains in some of the toughest to deal with schools. we've got a program called race to the top that has prompted reforms in 46 states around the country, raising standards, improving how we train teachers.
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now i want to hire another 100,000 new math and science teachers and create two million more slots in our community colleges so that people can get trained for the jobs that are out there right now. i want to make sure that we keep tuition low for our young people. when it comes to our tax code, governor romney and i both agree that our corporate tax rate is too high, so i want to lower it. particularly for manufacturing. taking it down to 25%. but i also want to close those loopholes that are giving incentives for companies that are shipping jobs overseas. i want to provide tax breaks for companies that are investing here in the united states. on energy, romney and i, we both agree that we've got to boost american energy production, and they're higher than they've been in years, but i also agree that we've got to look at the energy sources of the future, like wind and solar and biofuels and make those investments, so all of
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this is possible. now, in order for us to do it, we do have to close our deficit, and one of the things i'm sure we'll be discussing tonight is how do we deal with our tax code and how do we make sure that we are reducing spending in a responsible way, but also how do we have enough revenue to make those investments, and this is where this is a difference because governor romney's central economic plan calls for a $5 trillion tax cut on top of the extension of the bush tax cuts. that's another $1 trillion. $2 trillion in additional military spending that the military hasn't asked for, and that's $8 trillion. how we pay for that, reduces the deficit and makes the investments that we need to make without dumps those costs on the middle class americans, and i think that's one of the central questions of this campaign. ♪
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took hours to work or made me drowsy. after allegra, i have the only 24-hour medicine that's both fast and non-drowsy. after allegra, i have it all. >> both of you have spoken about a lot of different things. we're going to try to get through them in as specific a way as we possibly can, but, first, governor romney, do you have a question that you would like to ask the president directly about something you
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just said? >> well, sure, i would like to clear up the record and go through piece by piece. i don't have a $5 trillion tax cut. i don't have a tax cut of the scale that you're talking about. my view is that we have to provide tax relief to people in the middle class, but i'm not going reduce the shared taxes paid by high income people. high income people are doing just fine in this economy. they'll do fine whether you're president or i am. the people who are having a hard time right now are middle income americans. under the president's policies, middle income americans have been buried. they're just being crushed. middle income americans have seen their income come down by $4,300. this is a tax in and of itself. i'll call it the economy tax. it's been crushing. the same time gasoline prices have doubled under the president. electric rates are up. food prices are up. health care costs have gone up by $2,500 a family. middle income families are being crushed, and so the question is how to get them going again, and i described it. it's energy and trade. the right kind of trading
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programs, balancing our budget, and helping small business. those are the cornerstones of my plan, but the president mentioned a couple of other ideas, and he'll just note, first education. i agree education is key particularly the future of our economy, but our training programs right now -- we've got 47 of them housed in the federal government, reporting to eight different agencies. overhead is overwhelming. with we've got to get those dollars back to the states and go to the workers so they can create their own pathways to get in the training they need for jobs to really help them. the second area, taxation. we agree. we have to get the tax rates down, and i do both for corporations and for individuals. in order for us not to lose revenue and have the government run out of money, i also lower deductions and credits and exemptions so that we keep taking in the same money when you also account for growth. the third area, energy. energy is it critical, and the president pointed out correctly that production of oil and gas in the u.s. is up. but not due to his policies. in spite of his policies.
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mr. president, all of the increase in natural gas and oil has happened on private land. not on government land. on government land your administration has cut the number of permits and licenses in half. if i'm president, i'll double them, and also get the oil from offer shore and alaska and i'll bring that pipeline in from cana canada, and, by the way, i like coal. i'm going to make sure we can continue to burn clean coal. people in the coal industry feel like it's getting crushed by your policies. i want to get america and north america energy-independent, so we can create those jobs. finally, with regards to that tax cut, look, i'm not looking to cut massive taxes and to reduce the revenues going to the government. my number one principle is there will be no tax cut that adds to the deficit. i want to underline that. no tax cut that adds to the deaf deficit, but i do want to reduce the burden being paid by middle income americans, and to do that that also means i cannot reduce
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the burden paid by high-income americans. any language to the contrary is simply not accurate. >> mr. president? >> let's talk about taxes because i think it's instructive. four years ago when i stood on this stage i said i would cut taxes for middle class families. that's exactly what i did. we cut tacks for middle class families by about $3,600, and the reason is because i believe that we do best when the middle class is doing well, and by giving them those tax cuts, they had a little more money in their pocket, and so maybe they can buy a new car. they are certainly in a better position to weather the extraordinary recession that we went through. they can buy a computer for their kid who is going off to college, which means they're spending more money, businesses have more customers, businesses make more profits, and then hire more workers. now, governor romney's proposal that he has been proposing for
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18 months calls for a $5 trillion tax cut on top of $2 trillion of additional spending for our military, and he is saying that he is going to pay for it by closing loopholes and deductions. the problem is that he has been asked over 100 times how you would close those deductions and loopholes, and he hasn't been able to identify them, but i'm going to make an important point here, wrjim. >> all right. >> when you add up all the loopholes and deducks that upper income people are currently taking advantage of, you take those all away, you don't come close to paying for $5 trillion in tax cuts and $2 trillion in additional military spending, and that's why independent studies looking at this said the only way to meet governor romney's pledge of not reducing the deficit or not adding to the deficit is by burdening middle class families, the average middle class family with children, would pay about $2,000 more. now, that's not my analysis.
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that's the analysis of economist who's have looked at this, and that kind of top-down economics where folks at the top are doing well, so the average person making $3 million is getting a $250,000 tax break, while middle class families are burdened further. that's not what i believe is a recipe for economic growth. >> what is the difference? let's just stay on taxes. >> what is the -- >> virtually everything he just said about my tax plan is inaccurate. >> all right. >> so if the tax plan he described were a tax plan i was asked to support, i would say absolutely not. i'm not looking for a $5 trillion tax cut. what i've said is i won't put in place a tax cut that adds to the deficit. that's part one. so there's no economist that can say mitt romney's tax plan adds $5 trillion if i say i will not add to the deficit wh my tax plan. number two, i will not reduce the share paid by high income individuals. i know that you and your running mate keep saying that. i know it's a popular thing to say with a lot of people, but
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it's just not the case. look, i got five boys. i'm used to people saying something that's not always true, t just keep on repeating it, and ultimately hoping i'll believe it, but that is not the case. all right? i will not reduce the taxes paid by high income americans, and number three, i will not under any circumstances raise taxes on middle income families. i will lower taxes on middle income families. now, you cite a study. there's six other studies that look to the study you described and say it's completely wrong. i saw a study that came out today that said you're going to raise taxes by $3,000 to $4,000 on middle income families. throw all these studies out there. let's get to the bottom line. that is i want to bring down rates. i want to bring the rates down, at the same time lower deductions and exemptions and credits and so forth so we keep getting the revenue we need. you think, well, then why lower the rates? and the reason is because small business pays that individual rate. 54% of america's workers work in
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businesses that are taxed not at the corporate tax rate, but at the individual tax rate, and if we lower that rate, they will be able to hire more people. for me this is about jobs. this is about getting jobs for the american people. >> do you challenge what the governor just said about his own plan? >> well, for 18 months he has been running on this tax plan, and now five weeks before the election he is saying that his big bold idea is never mind, and the fact is that if you are lowering the rates the way you describe, governor, then it is not possible to come up with enough deductions and loopholes that only affect high income individuals to avoid either raising the deficit or burdening the middle class. it's math. it's arithmetic. now, governor romney and i do share a deep interest in encouraging small business growth, so at the same time that
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my tax plan has already lowered taxes for 98% of families, i also lowered taxes for small businesses 18 times, and what i want to do is continue the tax rates, the tax cuts that we put into place for small businesses and families, but i have said that for incomes over $250,000 a year that we should go back to the rates that we had when bill clinton was president, when we created 23 million new jobs, went from deficit to surplus and created a whole lot of millionaires to boot, and the reason this is important is because by doing that, we cannot only reduce the deficit, we cannot only encourage job growth through small businesses, but we're also able to make the investment that is are necessary in education or in energy, and we do have a difference, though, when it comes to definitions of small business. now, under my plan 97% of small businesses would not see their income taxes go up.
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governor rom my says, well, that top 3% are the job creators, they would be burdened, but under governor romney's definition, there are a whole bunch of millionaires and billionaires who are small businesses. donald trump is a small business. i know donald trump doesn't like to think of himself as small anything, but that's how you define small businesses if you are getting business income, and that kind of approach, i believe, will not grow our economy because the only way to pay for it without either burdening the middle class or blowing up our deficit is to make drastic cuts in things like education, making sure that we are continuing to invest in basic science and research, all the things that are helping america grow. i think that would be a mistake. oh no, not a migraine now.
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and get 3 years interest-free financing on tempur-pedic. but hurry, sleep train's inventory clearance sale ends columbus day. ♪ your ticket to a better night's sleep ♪ >> jim, let me just come back on that point. these small businesses we're talking about --
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>> excuse skoous me. just so everybody understands, we're way over our first 15 minutes. >> that's fine. >> it's okay. no problem. you don't have -- i don't have a problem. we're still on the economy, but we're going to come back to taxes and move to the deficit and a lot of other things too. okay? go ahead, sir. >> you bet. mr. president, you're absolutely right, which is with regards to 97% of the businesses are not taxed at the 35% tax rate. they're taxed at a lower rate, but those businesses that are in the last 3% of businesses happen to employ half -- half of all the people who work in small business. those are the businesses that employ one-quarter of all the workers in america. your plan is to take their tax rate from 35% to 40%. now, i talked to a guy who has a very small business. he is in the lex tronks business in st. louis. he has four employees. he said he and his son calculated how much they pay in taxes. federal income tax, federal payroll tax, state income tax, state sales tax, state property
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tax, gasoline tax added up to well over 50% of what they earned. your plan is to take the tax rate on successful small businesses from 35% to 40%. the national federation of independent businesses has said that will cost 700,000 jobs. i don't want to cost jobs. my priority is jobs. so what i do is i bring down the tax rates, lower deductions and exemptions, the same idea behind bowles-simpson, by the way. lower the exemptions to create more jobs because there's nothing better for getting us to a balanced budget than having more people working, earning more money, paying more taxes. that's by far the most effective and efficient way to get this budget balanced. >> jim, you may want to move on to another topic, but i would just say this to the american people. if you believe that we can cut taxes by $5 trillion and add $2
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trillion in additional spending that the military is not asking for, $7 trillion, just to give you a sense over ten years, that's more than our entire defense budget, and you think that by closing loopholes and deductions for the well-to-do, somehow you will not end up picking up the tab, then governor romney's plan may work for you. i think math, commonsense and our history shows us that's not a recipe for job fwroet. look, we've tried this. we've tried both approaches. the approach that governor romney is talking about is the same sales pitch that was made in 2001 and 2003, and we ended up with the slowest job growth in 50 years. we ended up moving from surplus to deficits, and it all culminated in the worst financial crisis since the great depression. bill clinton tried the approach that i'm talking about. we created 23 million new jobs.
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we went from deficit to surplus, and businesses did very well. in some ways we've got some data on which approach is more likely to create jobs and opportunity for americans, and i believe that the economy works best when middle class families are getting tax breaks so that they've got some money in their pockets, and those of us who have done extraordinarily well because of this magnificent country that we live in, that we can afford to do a little bit more to make sure we're not blowing up the deficit. >> the president began this segment, so i think i get the last word. >> you're going to get the first word in the next segment. >> but he gets the first word of that segment. i get the last word -- let me just make this comment. >> first of all -- >> let me repeat what i said. i'm not in favor of a $5 trillion tax cut. that's not my plan. my plan is not to put in place any tax cut that will add to the deficit. that's point one. so you may keep referring to the $5 trillion tax cut, but that's not my plan. >> okay. >> number two, let's look at
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history. my plan is not like anything that's been tried before. my plan is to bring down rates, but also bring down deductions and exemptions and credits at the same time so the revenue stays in, but that we bring down rates to get more people working. my priority is putting people back to work in america. they're suffering in this country. we talk about evidence. look at the evidence of the last four years. it's absolutely extraordinary. we've got 23 million people out of work or stopped looking for work in this country. it's just -- when the president took office 32 million people on food stamps, 47 million on food stamps today. economic growth this year slower than last year, and last year slower than the year before. going forward with the status quo is not going to cut it for the american people who are struggling today. there are a lot of warning lights
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>> all right. let's talk bsh we're still on the economy. this is theoretically now a second segment still on the
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economy, and specifically on what to do about the federal deficit. the federal debt. the question -- you each have two minutes on this. governor romney, you go first because the president went first on segment one. the question is this. what are the differences between the two of you as to how you would go about tackling the deficit problem in this country? >> well, good. i'm glad you raised that. it's a critical issue. i think it's not just an economic issue. i think it's a moral issue. i think it's frankly not moral for my generation to keep spending massively more than we take in, knowing those burdens are going to be passed on to the next generation, and they're going to be paying the interest and the principal all their lives, and the after of debt we're adding at $1 trillion a year is simply not moral. how do we deal with it? well, mathematically there are three ways that you can cut a deficit. one, of course, is to raise tacks. number two is to cut spending,
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and, number three, is to grow the economy because if more people work in a growing economy, they're making tacxes, and you can get the job done that way. the president would prefer raising tacks. i understand. the problem with raising taxes is that it slows down the rate of growth, and you could never quite get the job done. i want to lower spending and encourage economic growth at the same time. one things would i cut from spending? well, first of all, i will eliminate all programs by this test. if they don't pass it. is the program so critical it's worth borrowing money from china to pay for it? if not, i'll get rid of it. obama care is on my list. i apologize, mr. president. i use that term with all respect. >> i like it. >> okay, good. i get rid of that. i'm sorry, jim, i'm iffing to stop the subsidy to pbs. i'm going to stop other things. i like pbs. i love big bird. i actually like you too. i'm not going to keep on spending money on things to borrow money from china to pay for it. that's number one. number two, i'll take programs that are currently good programs, but i think it would be run more efficiently at the state level and sevened send them to the state.
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number three, i'll make government more efficient and cut back the number of employees, combine some agencies and departments. my cutbacks will be done through attrition, by the way. this is the approach we have to take to get america to a balanced budget. the president said he would cut the deficit in half. unfortunately, he doubled it. trillion dollar deficits for the last four years. the president has put it in place as much public debt -- almost as much debt held by the public as all prior presidents combined. >> mr. president, two minutes. >> when i walked in the oval office, i had more than $1 trillion deficit greeting me, and we know where it came from. two wars that were paid for on a credit card, and two tax cuts that were not paid for, and a whole bunch of programs that were not paid for, and then a massive economic crisis, and despite that, what we've said is, yes, we had to take some initial emergency measures to
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make sure we didn't slip into a great depression, but what we've also said is let's make sure that we are cutting out those things that are not helping us grow, so 77 government programs. everything from aircrafts that the air force had ordered, but weren't working very well. 18 government programs for education that were well-intentioned, but weren't helping kids learn. we went after medical fraud in medicare and medicaid. very aggressively. more aggressively than ever before and have saved tens of billions of dollars. $50 billion of waste taken out of the system, and i worked with democrats and republicans to take $1 trillion out of our discretionary domestic budget. that's the largest cut in the discretionary domestic budget since divide eisenhower. now, we all know that we've got to do more. so i put forward a specific $4 trillion deficit reduction plan. it's on a website. wh cuts make, and what ers.
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revenue we raise. the way we do it is $2.50 for every cut. we asked for $1 of additional revenue paid for as i indicated earlier by asking those of us who have done very well in this country to contribute a little bit more to reduce the deficit. governor romney earlier mentioned the bowles-simpson commission. that's how the commission, bipartisan commission, that talked about how we should move forward suggested we have to do it, in a balanced way with some revenue and some spending cuts. this is a major difference that governor romney and i have. let me just finish this point because you're looking for contrasts. you know, when governor romney stood on a stage with other republican candidates for the nomination, and he was asked would you take $10 of spending cuts for just $1 of revenue? he said no. now, if you take such an
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unbalanced approach, then that means you are going to be gutting our investments in schools and education. it means governor romney talked about medicaid and how we could send it back to the states, but effectively, this means a 30% cut in the primary program we held for seniors who are in innersing homes and for kids with disabilities, and that is not a right strategy for us to move forward. i love you, james. don't you love me? i'm a robot. i know. i know you're a robot! but there's more in you than just circuits and wires! uhhh. (cries) a machine can't give you what a person can. that's why ally has knowledgeable people there for you, night and day. ally bank. your money needs an ally.
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on gasoline. i am probably going to the gas station about once a month. last time i was at a gas station was about...i would say... two months ago. i very rarely put gas in my chevy volt. i go to the gas station such a small amount that i forget how to put gas in my car. [ male announcer ] and it's not just these owners giving the volt high praise. volt received the j.d. power and associates appeal award two years in a row.
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...and we inspected his brakes for free. -free is good. -free is very good. [ male announcer ] now get 50% off brake pads and shoes at meineke. >> way over the two minutes. >> sorry. >> governor, what about simpson-bowles? will you support simpson-bowles? >> the president should have grabbed it? >> no, will you support simpson-bowles? >> i have my own plan. i not the same. in my view the president should have grabbed it if he wanted to take some adjustments to it. take it to congress and fight for it. >> that's what we've done, made some adjustments to it, and we're putting it in front of congress right now. >> you've been president for four years. you said you would cut the deficit in half hour. we still have $1 trillion deficits. the cbo says we'll have $1
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trillion deficit for the next four years. you said before you would cut the deficit in half, and i lot of this idea $4 trillion in cuts. you found $4 trillion in ways to reduce or to get closer to a balanced budget, except we still show $1 trillion deficits every year. that doesn't get the job done. let me come back and say why is it that i don't want to raitaxe? i don't want to raise tack on people. you said it back in 2010 where you said, look, i'm going to extend the tax policies that we have. i'm not going to raise tacks on anyone because when the economy is growing slee sloe like this, when are you in recession, you shouldn't raise taxes on anyone. well, the economy is still growing slow. as a matter of fact, it's growing much more slowly now than when you made that statement. so if you believe the same thing, you just don't want to raise taxes on people, and the reality is it's not just wealthy people. you mentioned donald trump. it's not just donald trump you're taxing. it's all those business that is employ one-quarter of the workers in america, these small businesses that are taxed as
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individuals. you raise taxes, and you kill jobs. that's why the national federation of independent businesses said your plan will kill $700,000 jobs. i don't want to kill jobs in this environment. let me make one more point. >> let's let him answer the taxes thing for a moment. >> okay. >> mr. president. >> we've had this discussion before. >> about the idea that in order to do -- to reduce the deficit, there has to be revenue in addition to cuts. >> there has to be revenue in addition to cuts. now, governor romney has ruled out revenue. he has ruled out revenue. >> absolutely. look, the revenue i get is by more people working, getting higher pay, paying more taxes. that's how we get growth and how we balance the budget, but the idea of taxing people more, putting more people out of work, you'll never get there. you never balance the budget by raising taxes. spain spends 42% of their total economy on government. we're now spending 42% of our economy on government. i don't want to go down the path
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to spain. i want to go down the path of growth that puts americans to work with more money coming in because they're working. >> but, mr. president, you're saying in order to get it -- the job done, it's got to be balanced? >> if we're serious, we've got to take a balanced responsible approach, and, by the way, this is not just when it comes to individual taxes. let's talk about corporate taxes. now, i've identified areas where we can right away make a change that i believe would actually help the economy. the oil industry gets $4 billion a year in corporate welfare. basically they get deduck that is those small businesses that governor romney refers to, they don't get. now, does anybody think that exxonmobil needs some extra money when they're making money every time you go to the pump? why wouldn't we want to eliminate that? why wouldn't we eliminate tax breaks for corporate jets?
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my attitude is if you got a corporate jet, you can probably afford to pay full freight and not get a special break for it. when it comes to corporate tacks, governor romney has said he said he wants to in a revenue-neutral way close loopholes, deductions. he hasn't identified which ones they are, but thereby bring down the corporate rate. well, i want to do the same thing, but i've actually identified how we can do that. and part of the way to do it is to not give tax breaks to companies that are shipping jobs overseas. right now you can actually take a deduction for moving a plant overseas. i think most americans would say that doesn't make sense, and all that raises revenue, and so if we take a balanced approach, what that then allows us to do is also to help young people the way we already have during my administration make sure that they can afford to go to college. it means that the teacher that i met in las vegas, a wonderful young lady, who describes to me
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she's got 42 kids in her class. the first two weeks she's got some of them sitting on the floor until finally they get reassigned. they're using textbook that is are ten years old. that is not a recipe for growth. that's not how america was built. so budgets reflect choices. ultimately we're going to have to make some decisions, and if we're asking for no revenue, then that means that we've got to get rid of a whole bunch of stuff and the magnitude of the tax cuts that you're talking about, governor, would end up resulting in severe hardship for people, but more importantly, would not help us grow. as i indicated before, when you talk about shifting medicaid to states, we're talking about potentially a 30% cut in medicaid over time. now, that may not seem like a big deal when it just is numbers on a sheet of paper, but if we're talking about a family who has an autistic kid and is
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depending on that medicaid, that's a big problem, and governors are creative. there's no doubt about it, but they're not creative enough to make up for 30% of revenue on something like medicaid. what ends up happening is some people end up not getting help. >> jim, let's -- we've got on a lot of topics there, so it's going to take a minute to go from medicaid to schools. >> come back to medicaid. >> to otherwise and tax breaks to companies going overseas. let's go to them one by one. first of all, on the department of energy they've said that the tax break for oil companies is $2.8 billion a year, and it's actually an accounting treatment, as you know, that's been in place for 100 years. now -- >> it's time to end it. >> in one year you provided $90 billion in breaks to the green energy world. now, i like green energy as well, but that's about 50 years worth of what oil and gas receives, and you say exxon and mobile. actually, this $2.8 billion goes largely to small companies to drilling operators and so forth, but, you know, if we get that
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tax rate from 35% down to 25%, why, that $2.8 billion is on the table. of course, it's on the table. that's probably not going to survive you get that rate down to 25%. don't forget, you put $90 billion, like 50 years worth of breaks, into solar and wind. to fisker and tesla. you don't just pick the winers and losers. you pick the losers. this is not the kind of policy you want to have if you want to get america energy-secure. the second topic is you said you get a deduction for taking a plant overseas. i have been in business for 25 years. i have no idea what you're talking about. you maybe need to get a new accountant, but the idea that you get a break for shipping jobs overseas is simply not the case. what we do have right now is bringing money overseas back to this country, and finally medicaid to states. i'm not quite sure where that came in except for this, which is i would like to take the medicaid dollars to go to states
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and say to a state you are going to get what you got last year, plus inflation. plus 1%. and then you're going to manage your car for your poor and the way you think best, and i remember as a governor, when this idea was floated by tommyt, republicans and democrats, said please let us do that. we can care for our poor in so much better and more effective a way than having the federal government tell us how to care for our poor. so, let's states -- one of the magnificent things of this country is idea that states are the laboratory of democracy. don't have the federal government tell everybody what kind of training programs they have to have and what kind of medicaid they have to have. let states do this. if a state gets in trouble, we can step in and find a way to help them. but the right approach is one of which relies on the brilliance of our people and states. not the federal government. >> we are going on. still on the economy but another part of it.
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all right. all right. this is segment three, the economy. entitlements. first answer goes to you, two minutes, mr. president. do you see a major difference between the two of you on social security? >> you know, i suspect that on social security, we've got a somewhat similar position. social security is structurally sound. it's going to have to be tweaked the way it was by ronald reagan and speaker -- democratic speaker tip o'neill. but the basic structure is sound. but i want to talk about the values behind social security and medicare. and then talk about medicare because that's the big driver -- >> sure. >> -- of our deficits right now. you know, my grandmother, some of you know, helped to raise me, my grandparents did. my grandfather died a while back. my grandmother died three days before i was elected president. and she was fiercely independent. she worked her way up, only had a high school education, started as a secretary, ended up being
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the vice president of a local bank. and she ended up living alone by choice. and the reason she could be independent is because of social security and medicare. she had worked all her life, put in this money, and understood that there was a basic guarantee, a floor under which she could not go. and that's the perspective i bring when i think about what's called entitlements. you know, the name itself implies some sense of dependency on the part of these folks. these are focus who have worked hard, like my grandmother. and there are millions of people out there who are counting on this. so my approach is to say, how do we strengthen the system over the long-term? and in medicare, what we did was we said, we are going to have to bring down the cost ifs we're going to deal with our long-term deficits, but to do that, let's look at where some of the money is going. $716 billion we were able to save from the medicare program by no longer overpaying
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insurance companies, by making sure that we weren't overpaying providers, and using that money -- we were actually able to lower prescription drug costs for seniors by an average of $600, and we were also able to make a significant dent in providing them the kind of preventive care that will ultimately save money throughout the system. so, the way for us to deal with medicare in particular is to lower health care costs. when it comes to social security, as i said, you don't need a major structural change in order to make sure that social security is there for the future. >> we'll follow up on this. first, governor romney, you have two minutes on social security and entitlements. >> well, jim, our seniors depend on these programs, and i know anytime we talk about entitlements people become concerned that something's going to happen that's going to change their life for the worse. and the answer is neither the president nor i are proposing any changes for any current retirees or near retirees, either to social security or medicare.
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so if you're 60 or around 60 or older, you don't need to listen any further. but for younger people, we need to talk about what changes are going to be occurring. oh, i just thought about one. and that is, in fak, i was wrong when i said the president isn't proposing any changes for current retirees, and he is on medicare. for social security's not. but on medicare for current retirees, he's cutting $716 billion from the program. he says by not overpaying hospitals and providers. actually, just going to them and saying, we're going to reduce the rates you're getting across the board, everybody's going to get a lower rate. that's not just going after places where there's abuse. that's cutting the rates. some 15% of hospitals and nursing homes say they won't take anymore medicare patients under that scenario. we also have 50% of doctors who say they won't take more medicare patients. this -- we have 4 million people on medicare advantage that will lose medicare advantage
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that will lose medicare advantage because of those $716 billion in cuts. i can't understand how you can cut medicare $716 billion for current recipients of medicare. now, you point out, well, we're putting some back. we're going to give a better prescription program. that's $1 for every $15 you've cut. they're smart enough to know that's not a good trade. i want to take that $716 billion you've cut and put it back into medicare. by the way, we can include a prescription program if we need to improve it. but the idea of cutting $716 billion from medicare to be able to balance the additional cost of obama care is, in my opinion, a mistake. and with regards to young people coming along, i've got proposals to make sure medicare and social security are there for them without any question. >> mr. president? >> first of all, i think it's important for governor romney to present this plan that he says will only affect folks in the future. and the essence of the plan is that you would turn medicare into a voucher program. it's called premium support, but it's understood to be a voucher program.
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>> and you don't support that? >> i don't. and let me explain why. >> again, that's for future -- >> i understand -- >> -- people. not for current retirees. >> so if you're 54 or 55, you might want to listen. because this will affect you. the idea, which was originally presented by congressman ryan, your running mate, is that we would give a voucher to seniors and they could go out in the private market place and buy their own health insurance. the problem is that because the voucher wouldn't necessarily keep up with health insurance inflation, it is estimated this would cost the average senior about $6,000 a year. now, in fairness, what governor romney has now said is he'll maintain traditional medicare alongside it. but there's still a problem. because what happens is, those insurance companies are pretty clever at figuring out who are the younger and healthier seniors.

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